On the day that the National Intelligence Estimate went public stating that the war in Iraq has created more Islamic radicals, former President Bill Clinton criticized Fox News for not being a balanced news source. He had been asked if he had done enough to fight terrorism and before saying no, he chastised the commentator for not asking the same question of President Bush and his Adminsitration, who had done NOTHING to fight or acknowledge terrorism in the 8 months they were in office prior to 9/11. President Clinton also explained that he had tried to kill Bin Laden, that he had authorized the CIA to do so if possible, and ended the interview by criticizing the small number of troops in Afghanistan looking for the actual mastermind of 9/11 and the overblown importance placed in Iraq.
By making these statements publicly, Former President Clinton gave the Democrats, including his wife, something to run on. Though he is nearly invincible politically at the moment, he showed the Democrats that not only is it okay to have a backbone, it's actually preferred to the wishy-washy, fake, no-substance answers we have been hearing for the past 6 years. I hope that the Democrats finally start standing up and hitting back on these issues, especially since they have the political and moral upper-hand. All we need now are impeachment proceedings.
2,711 US Soldiers have been killed in Iraq
20,486 US Soldiers have been wounded in Iraq
WHEN ARE WE GOING TO DEMAND THAT THIS ENDS??? or at least that we be told why this was begun?
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35 comments:
PC,
There is even more news today about the role of the White House, and their veracity in the Jack Abramhoff incident. Moreover, Bob Woodard has come out with a new book talking about what was actually known in this administration, but not disclosed.
If the Democrats pulled anything even close to this, there would be impeachment proceedings going on. This country is becoming a very frustrating and painful place.
Barbara,
I agree. This is the main reason why we are considering a move to Canada, Ireland, or Holland. We don't want to abandon our country, but we feel that our country has abandoned us. The Republicans never would have let the Democrats get ANY of this by them.
I can indeed comment here so have no worries, just been away so much been hard to chip in.
Yep, I've been contemplating other countries, too. Sorry if it makes me a rat, but a sinking ship is a sinking ship. And this is a sinking ship filled with jackals hungry for our flesh.
Of course, I could stay and resist. Perhaps... no, probably I will. That would be the human thing to do, and this is my country. I was never suited for the military, but that doesnt mean I cant be a patriot. Try acts of passive resistance, simple things like t-shirts on airliners, or messages on your airline baggie. Oh, and talk. A lot. Talk without fear, even though there may actually be something to fear. Why should soldiers be the only ones who face danger? "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance", right. That's your vigilance, not the vigilance of some kid who bought into the "be all you can be" ad (apparently, all you can be these days is IED fodder).
It's time to push the "authorities", to see just what it is that they truly intend for us, the citizens of the United States of America. Does freedom still exist in America, or are the tyrants experimenting with walking on their hind trotters?
The ship's not sinking quickly or anything. If we can get rid of the predators, we can fix it up alright. But have your passport ready, just in case. I dont think they're checking on who leaves the country.
Yet.
My thoughts exactly. It was also a savvy political move to redirect the national attention back to the flaws in Bush's "war on terror."
Pick up a brick! Use to either build something or break something.
Where the hell was he in 2004? It angers me that he stood on the sidelines as long as he did. It angers me that he waited until they eventually attacked him before he stood up and said something.
The Democratic party has way too many Liebermanites who are only interested in self-preservation. Witness the eleven Senators who voted for the GOP torture approval plan.
Greg Saunders over at The Talent Show has a great take on the supject: http://www.thetalentshow.org/archives/002608.html
Yeharr
the whole system is whacked. The only real solution is viable alternate parties. The two party system has become bad vs. worse. The democrats have no backbone because they have no strong stands on anything. The GOP has backbone and strong positions on things that tear the country apart (church n' state, "family values", abortion, etc). They're both divisive in their own separate ways.
How about running on this - "We won't molest your teens."
Wow, guys, these are a lot of great comments!
Dave,
It does not make you a rat. It makes you a person who is interested in giving yourself and you children the best possible chance at a peaceful and free future. We've talked about staying and resisting, but we're doing everything we can right now. We work on campaigns, go to protests, write and talk to our representatives, and have joined countless organizations. In 6 years, there has been no improvement. Our deal is that we will stick it out for another 6. If things haven't improved by the time our son is ready for kindergarten, it's time to go.
Jessica,
I think redirection will be the key to the next few elections. The only problem is that while the Republicans have done some awful things, the Democrats have done very little to stop them.
Cranky,
We'll build until we have to go. There's a lot that needs to be destroyed. We need a revolution (or a third party or the demolition of parties all together), but we'll never see one in our lifetimes because even the mention of one will make the NSA and CIA monitor our emails, blogs, etc.
BP,
Where were they all in 2004? We could have used some actual politicians instead of what we have.
Laura,
We need a third party now more than ever.
Above all else, make sure you do not use voting machines without paper trails that humans representing each candidate can scrutinize.
Bud,
This is a VERY important point. Everyone, PLEASE make sure your ward is using machines with a paper trail, and demand to see it when you vote.
Oh puh-leeze. Sure we need to get out of Iraq, but all this sanctimonious crap coming from Clinton? The guy that let Bin Laden get away in the first place? The guy that knew the potential problems before he left office? C'mon.
Bush is an idiot, Clinton is an idiot. Because both lied (or just ignored the situation until it was too late), many died.
Saur, I cant believe that you're buying into the latest Republican lie. Funny that it took them 5 years to start accusing. Despite having all that time and access to records, isnt it funny that none of the Clinton organization has been indicted for anything? Do you think that'll be true for the BushCorp if Dems get the White House in 2008?. You dont suppose that the timing had anything to do with the way the GOP's star is sinking, while Bill looks better and better, do you?
I came up with a way to finish off the Bush Cabal for good, and hopefully return the party to responsible conservatives (which we need as much as we need responsible liberals). Here it is in a nutshell, and I promise you it will devastate the Republicans:
Trade an end to abortion for an end to torture.
Before anyone thinks I've betrayed something, go read the details, but basically it guts the GOP of the one really galvanizing issue that they have, and the only "moral" issue they really have to stand on. Remove abortion, and the GOP is out of ammo (except for the weaker "patriotism" issue).
Well far be it from me to lay blame. I don't carry any of their water buttttttt I will say the best thing that ever happened to clinton was the Florida election. If Gore had won he would have been the ass of the 9-11 attacks. Come on people you can't put the blame on someone that was in office for 8-9 months. But don't put it on Clinton either. Its no ones fault. It's radical Islams fault. Those fuck-heads believe they can beat us. They want to kill us. Everyone who isn't for killing them there is for them.
I know everyone here thinks I am this Bush supporter but what I am is an American supporter. IDGQAF who is in power, I want someone there who is willing to put their legacy and their polls and theiur perception on the line to do what is right.
I do think bush did the right thing, i think the war plan was FUBAR, but the intent was there, just like the intent of social security, the intent of the united nations, the intent of Nato, the intent of welfare. All good intentions and fucked up results. But I don't hate, i do want to fix but it isn't personal. I don't curse the damn fool who got us into the raw deal, I just want to fix it before we become Europe or Canada
anyway
thats my view
ole jsull28fl@yahoo
Dave,
I'm not for sure but best of my recollection Clinton was impeached. I don't know what you consider indicted but I'm thinking impeached falls within those bounds.
Just some inane thoughts from the factual js
JS - "They" have already won. The moment we started trading away our liberties out of fear they won. The moment we stepped off the moral high ground and into their mud, they won.
Let's not forget that the first President Bush was in office before Clinton and none of this has anything to do with the actual problem. Iraq should never have been on our radar in the first place. If Bush 1 had succeeded in the first Gulf War, we would be in an entirely different place right now. Clinton tried to get Bin Laden and failed, the Bush Clan tried once, lied about it once, and sill has not succeeded, and they've had 10 years between the two of them.
Re: NSA bugging, etc.
Who's to say that the government isn't monitoring this site?
Re: NIE
UWL, I know for the sake of space, you included one small section in the report (which was leaked out of context prior to going public, I might add) but excluded so much of the rest. It is far more favorable to the Iraq War than what you suggest by the lack of disclosure.
Re: Clinton's battle cry
Clinton sure did let the fur fly, however, I doubt that there'll be much to it. It's already peetering out.
Re: "We won't molest your children."
Was that a Repub slogan, or Democrat slogan? Man, it seems like Rome again, doesn't it? Yech!
Re: Pursuing Master-Mind of 9/11
If we don't get OBL, does it mean our terror war is a failure? There's far too many terrorist organizations that we are dealing with successfully that would spell doom for it. I wonder, just what would happen to the terror threat level should we capture or kill Bin Laden? Probably remain the same.
Re: This years voting season
This is about as bad as I have seen it. Makes me wonder what kind of circus we'll have in 2008. Maybe I'll start my dissertation by then and hibernate.
Re: On a completely different note
The fall colors are GREAT now here in Wisconsin. We're peaking now!
UWL:
How is your baby doing? Hope he's healthy, happy, and growing! I have a granddaughter who is a year and a half. Take care.
We're not peaking yet in NH, but the reds are starting to comes in.
"Yech" - I agree. It makes one wnat to just check out of the whole process.
Impeachment is a legislative process "equivalent to indictment in criminal law", i.e. it is not indictment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment
I've always been of the impression that the verifed death of OBL is the "go" signal for the sleepers with the pre-positioned nukes. Hence the onging "failure to capture" and near misses. By that reasoning, the recent rumors of his death could be intended to get the sleepers to start preparing to deploy, and possibly flush some of the out.
And now there is a television series helpfully showing us how to survive in case the sleepers do proceed.
The baby is doing well. He is healthy and growing, sometimes sleeping, though not as much as we'd like. He's perfect!
But to place blame anywhere is insane, wanna place blame? Give it to ZReagan. He should have bombed them from then till now over the barracks bombing. But there is no need to look back, look ahead and tell us please for the love of god someone tell us what they would do? Thats the main prob I think alot of voters have with the dems, they say, rightly so, that bush fucked it up, they never say what they would do to fix it, ever. They say get us oiut in one breath then say we needed more troops? Thats my problem with the dems is I havent a clue, other than higher taxes and abortion what it is they stand for? They are all over the dude in Fl, which they should be but there is no party that is innocent. If I was the dems I'd hush because the rove machine and the talk radio will turn it back on them just like they did everything Kerry said.
UWL
see what I mean about not knowing what the Dems are for? Bush 1 went in did what they went in to do WITH a coalition and got out now that was leaving it unfinished. Bush 2 goes and stays and he's over staying his wecome. No wonder us that vote the person and not the party are confused.
Saying the bushs had 10 years and Uncle Billy boy had 8 as any kind of point is like saying "ok our guy was a peice of shit but your guy is a stinkier peice.
I surely don't blame either bush, clinton reagan, carter, washington or Lincoln.
I do know that one president took far more heat in his day from his party and all Americans over a war than bush has, that'd be Lincoln, He stayed, he believed and he was right.
CY,
I disagree they have won. What would you have done? Would you have frred the iraqs? Would you have stopped Saddam? Would you unilateraly invade PAkastan? I wish I knew what all the cryers would do? I'm for a good plan I just havent heard any from either side.
I disagree they have won. What would you have done? Would you have frred the iraqs? Would you have stopped Saddam? Would you unilateraly invade PAkastan? I wish I knew what all the cryers would do? I'm for a good plan I just havent heard any from either side.
Are those the only options. NO, I would not have invaded Iraq. There are other countries that "need freedom" more than the Iraqis did. Stopped Saddam from what? He was contained. The evidence has born that out pretty clearly. 90 percent of the "evil" he was accused occurred prior to 1991 when he was our alley.
I would not have invaded Pakistan unless they were proven to have been harboring someone who attacked or were behind that attack themselves. I would have thrown everything including the kitchen sink at Afghanistan in the hunt for the people who attacked us. I would have committed enough force to help Afghanistan determine its own way in the aftermath.
To "avenge" 911, I would have done exactly what Clinton did when he captured, tried and imprisoned ALL of those behind the first WTC attack.
I would not have sold out the U.S. Constitution out of cowardice like you. Unlike you I am not afraid of terrorists(ism). I would not give up my principles. Once you give up your rights out of fear you no longer deserve them. Chickenhawks are all cowards.
You can call me a cryer all you want, but realize unlike you I have had my butt on the line for this country. My experiences in the Middle-East in 1990-1991 are at the root of what makes me the proud and angry Liberal I am today.
You want a plan for Iraq? Here is 1 Democrat's plan Paul Hodes for Congress Read and learn. This guy is going to be my Congressman next year after we bounce the rubber-stamp rethug bitch that holds the seat now.
I think the dems will prevail this time. This is their best chance. A certified fool could have won last time, evidently one did, that makes the other candidate and his supporters ummmmmmmm. Anyway Clinton did what? Osama was behind the attacks, thats a no brainer, thats common knowledge, clinton did pull out tho, yeah he did, he ran like a chicken shit bitch, he proved what he was, I can't stand behind anyone that would allow our boys to be abused the way they did them, on video, we all saw it. Clinton did absolutely nothing against the terrorists. Did he capture the folks that bombed the cole too?
Oh I must have missed that. Ill check it out. I think the war is fucked up, the whole is fucked up, I stand behind whoever is in power though and support the troops either way. Because I wasnt there does not keep me from speaking my peice and because someone was doesn't make them an expert on anything. I am sure that the islam freaks mean to do us harm. I also wonder how many times did they attack us during uncle billys terms?
hmmmmmmmmm
ok lets go with once on Bush's terms.
Simple math, i broke it down for one and all.
ole J
Can someone translate for me. I don't speak numbnuts.
thats what everyone says when they have no argument!
I could have posted for you, I knew exactly what you would say, excellent. Oh yeah and if the reps had someone that was found to have stolen 90k from folks that were the victum of a terrible disaster i assure you they would take the high ground and expel that sorry peice of shit
j
No, js, that's what people say when they cant understand what's been said. Stop foaming at the mouth and type slower, and for god's sake use the "preview" button and proof-read.
"...clinton did pull out tho, yeah he did, he ran like a chicken shit bitch, he proved what he was, I can't stand behind anyone that would allow our boys to be abused the way they did them, on video, we all saw it."
See? And this is just a small part. What the hell are you talking about? When you speak of Clinton running, I'll assume you mean Somolia (as opposed to staying in Bosnia, a successful intervention, except as far as the GOP was concerned; see here), but do you connect Clinton with video of (again, I'm assuming) Americans being beheaded?
Do you know, ultimately, why Bill Clinton will be considered in the top fifth of all presidents, at least? Because of the ugly picture which Conservatives are still trying to paint of him, even 6 years after he's left office. Sure, he was too far right for a Democrat, especially as concerned business, and he really needed to learn to keep his barn door closed and his hands to himself. But the economy boomed, people had hope (except maybe in the spring of '95) and Orwellian double-speak wasnt S.O.P.
"I don't know what you consider indicted but I'm thinking impeached falls within those bounds."
What Cranky said.
If one is indicted, generally one goes to trial (regardless of verdict there). Has that happened yet to someone from the Clinton administration? There are questions about whether one reason that the FBI dropped the ball on 9/11 is that they were too busy investigating Clinton and F.O.B.s to bother with some islamo-posturing out-of-stater.
Plus, Clinton was impeached for lying about personal sexual encounters, not activities of the State. Hmmm. Now who do we know that might have lied about that kind of thing? Want to read Clinton's impeachment document?
I've lost track of where I was going with all this...
re: monitoring; yeah, UL, they probably are monitoring. (Hello, boys!) Screw them, we're not doing anything illegal, and if we are then it's only because things are more fucked up than all but the most paranoid of us thought.
re: fall color; Must be nice. Here in Texas we'll get fall sometime in mid-November, maybe. About half the time the leaves just dry up and fall off, without the pretty colors (unless you like brown)
but do you connect Clinton with video of (again, I'm assuming) Americans being beheaded?
excellent point, thats as good as any reason to stay.
Dave, I really think (to your dismay I'm sure) that you and I arent that far apart. I assure you idgaf who blew who and where, it does trouble me about the lie. I mean that is very childish. I don't think, and have said time and time again, that clinton was a bad president. And as far as politicions go he ranks up there with JFK, Newt, Reagan and others of the ilk. I don't hate Clinton I really don't. I mean damn get it boy anywhere anytime.
I will say this though in bush's defense, everyone thought saddam had WMD. Kerry, clinton all of them. I really don't think he lied on purpose. Anyway like I say I dont think we are that far apart and the stock market was almost as good under clinton as it is under Bush, now being second there to Bush is a good thing!!
js
I mean damn get it boy anywhere anytime."
Is that within your moral code? Married men should cheat on their wives? I guess I just don't get you. Thank god.
Ummmm
I don't know if you are male or female so I will not attempt a title such as fella or sugar. If thats all you replied to in that whole post i failed. Thats not odd though.
Anyway
please check back on any blog I ever posted on.
I never ever claimed to have morals. Ever. But I have several times explained my Democratic votes. And I have spouted compliments on the Dems.
Me and Uncle Billy dont give a shit about morals
and we don't want to.
How could anyone be a good liberal that wasnt all for self satisfaction and instant gratification?
jsul
"I never ever claimed to have morals."
All is explained. One sentence, and all is explained. Most people are not proud of such things, but then most people are not sociopaths.
oh yeah bro thats me
a real psycho
yeah thats me
yeah
good take
don't argue the issues that would not be benifitial for your cause.
j
Admittedly, it's not a perfect fit:
"Antisocial Personality Disorder is also known as psychopathy or sociopathy. Individuals with this disorder have little regard for the feeling and welfare of others. As a clinical diagnosis it is usually limited to those over age 18. It can be diagnosed in younger people if the they commit isolated antisocial acts and do not show signs of another mental disorder.
"Antisocial Personality Disorder is chronic, beginning in adolescence and continuing throughout adulthood. There are ten general symptoms:
-not learning from experience
-no sense of responsibility
-inability to form meaningful relationships
-inability to control impulses
-lack of moral sense
-chronically antisocial behavior
-no change in behavior after punishment
-emotional immaturity
-lack of guilt
-self-centeredness
(my emphesis). It gets less accurate, perhaps, as you read further, but I'll let this stand and acknowledge the hyperbole.
and?
I looked all over dictionary.com and websters
All i saw was anti social
hell I could have told you that withoiut you doing any research.
I'm a seperatist too
Thats not news to me.
It never said a word about personal responsibility
it never said I dont need anyone to help or support me
even though I dont
It never said I never lean on anyone or any institution.
It never said I will always survive and flourish.
Damn man, it aint easy being me. I never get to be a burdin on anyone, sigh I always take care of me and mine.
I know that hurts some lesser folks, I realise that some need help, I just will never be one of those people.
jsull
ty for the the definitions, nothing I didn't already know but I am always for conformation of superior traits.
jsull28fl
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